Lupus and Psychosis

One thing that I recently learned about Lupus is that it can, if fact cause psychosis.

It is rare that this occurs (less than 3% of newly diagnosed patients and 5% of patients previously diagnosed with SLE), but often enough that it is now considered and used as an indicator for SLE.

So, WHY do I bring this up? As most of us have had the lovely experience of "lupus fog" we may not have realized that we were really experiencing something far more extensive than impaired cognitive ability.

I experienced a flare during the holidays bad enough for me to actually hallucinate and while I am feeling much better now, I have taken a really hard look at what the last...well decade has been like and realized that there have been days and even weeks & months that I will never remember, things I have said and done that may have hurt others without my realizing it.

The reason I share this very personal and embarrassing information is that I want others to be informed and aware that although WE may think we are being entirely sane and rational, the truth is that during a flare our thought processes can and usually are compromised.

My Rhuemy always asks about this and notates my cognition in my notes. If your Rhuemy is not doing this you need to take charge and do this yourself. If you are not getting relief from your meds you need to let your Rhuemy know as this can be incredibly dangerous as well as continue to keep you agitated which is not good for your overall health.

Tips from my Rhuemy

Practice a Positive Mindset - Start each day by determining to make the most of that day. Concentrate on what you CAN do, not what you can't.

Manage Stress- Calm your mind and body. Several websites offer free info on meditation techniques and stress relief.

Get Support - Well that's what we are here for, but keep your friends and family well informed about your health. They aren't going to be able to always know how you feel unless you tell them.

We ALL have bad days. We grieve for who we used to be. But your emotional well being is in your hands and this disease can and does lead to depression, anxiety and feelings of helplessness. Please ask for help if you have any of these symptoms.

We are here for you, but sometimes a little something more is needed. Don't be afraid or ashamed to ask for help.

Hugs to all,

DeAnne

I'm so glad you took the courage to bring this up! I haven't experienced anything really vivid yet, but lately with this flare up I've been feeling like I see things move when nothing has moved at all. I kept brushing it off because I felt crazy, but I'm definitely going to bring it up to my rheumy.

Ballerina8876,

I hope that you NEVER do experience anything like that :). I did just want to bring it up because the emotional and psychological issues that come with this disease aren't just depression and irritability and can be very damaging if not identified early.

We have NO control over our bodies with this disease, however if you do see changes in yourself, please do not ignore them.

I, too, have had that weird "what's that moving?" feeling in the corner of my eye. It can be disconcerting. So glad that YOU have the courage to discuss this with your doctor. There are some very good medications that can help. I feel like a brand new gal :), Mentally anyway!

I do hope that your flare ends soon!

Hugs,

DeAnne

omg... i thought it was me alone.... when i was first diagnosed, i went into complete shut down... mom said i didnt even remember who was my parents i cudnt even remember how to speak... i use to heard voices all the time... we just thought it was a side effect to takin high doses of prednisolone. It was really somthing hard to deal with my entire family thought that it was schizophrenia.. i never wanted to take my meds i use to think all sorts of crap eg. at some point i thought my parents was tryin to kill me with all the meds i had to take... its kinder funny now when i think of if it... but the as the flare went things began to normalized.... but that time in my life was soo weird... but i still remain unsure of what is lupus ans what is side effects of my medication... lol.. well as u said a positive mind is what we all have to equipt ourselves with... god bless

I an so glad that you opened up to discuss this. I have had that feeling that I see objects moving on the side of me and I have experienced hearing voices or noises that no one else heard. I never talk about it nor have I mentioned it to my Rheumy out of fear that they would think I was crazy. I have not discussed this with family either, just thought it was weird.

Well said! I’m currently in the thick of sorting these things out… I’m recently diagnosed (in the last year), but with longstanding mental health challenges including a particularly bad episode of psychiatric trouble as one of the elements that supports the SLE diagnosis! It was treated as a purely psychiatric issue at the time, and only now is being re-examined in light of having definite SLE. I also have a family history of psychiatric illness, so I may simply fall into both camps at once… Wow, did i just say “simply”? Actually nightmarishly complicated, which is where those coping strategies you listed are so essential!

I find myself in the position of wondering whether my lupus treatment will alleviate it to some degree and allow reducing use of psych meds, whether I need to continue or escalate the psych meds, and whether I will respond well enough to either one to get on with life in decent shape! In all cases, I’m seeking out coping strategies and extra counseling to keep mental/emotional agitation from worsening my physical health and vice-versa. It’s so hard to grasp even for myself (and I tend to be highly introspective, plus hold a degree in neuroscience…) and nearly impossible to communicate to others who are fortunate to have their mind, just as their body, work pretty much the same way all the time.

Some people I’ve encountered are simply too impatient or inflexible to understand, compassionately support, or even just tolerate the challenging mental and behavioral states I go through, while others seem to intuitively know what I need and intervene in just the right ways. I love to have those amazingly helpful and kind people around me, and desperately fear wearing them out! (and of course the anxiety I have over stressing them out makes me freak out even more… Working on breaking that cycle as a top priority!) I’m slowly learning not to waste sweat and tears trying the impossible task of winning over the ones who don’t or won’t get it… But I hate having someone walk away thinking terrible things about me that aren’t a fair judgment. So, in the midst of these challenging periods, when I should just be doing everything possible to recover, I’m frantically trying to reduce my impact on others and feeling self-conscious of what still others think of me! I’m sure everyone on this site knows THAT sinking feeling…

I try to focus on successes, of which awareness certainly is a major one, but it’s hard not to feel like I keep falling short! It adds even more stress as I watch the drama unfold like I’m in a movie with no pause button, with recurring scenes of disappointment and heartbreak that I’ve been through too many times but can’t seem to alter yet despite my growing awareness. (I understand cognitive-behavioral therapy is aimed at discovering that pause button I’ve never been able to find, so I’m getting into it finally after years of thinking I should!) Becoming aware of everything without having many tools to address it has been a really painful time, and I feel horribly misinderstood by most people, but looking back it’s actually not as tough as a lot of my past. Sometimes I even succeed at being patient and kind with myself and proud of how much progress I’m making all the time in learning to cope, not only with my illness but also myself! Being here sharing wisdom with people who actually get it firsthand makes me feel like I’ve been granted a code-breaking manual. It’s been an invaluable source of support and clarification of what I can and can’t control. My tendency is to try to control everything while feeling totally out of control, so it helps a lot that I’m learning to let (some) things go.

Most of all it’s hard to accept the paradox that it’s not my fault these things wash over me, yet it’s my responsibility to handle them if I want a good life for myself to live and to bring good to others. It gets exhausting being expected to be a superhero when I feel totally broken. I battle with bitterness towards those who don’t have to work so hard just to go on daily (thinking “if you think it’s so hard on you dealing with me, try imagining how it feels BEing me, being trapped in this malfunctioning body and even mind, and expected to contain the damage from all the stronger people around me who can’t be bothered to help or at least wait it out!”) I recently expressed to a potential romantic partner (that wasn’t working out, as usual, and thus I could feel more comfortable to say what I really think in discussing how he could be “just a friend”) that what I REALLY want is someone who realizes how excruciatingly hard I have to work to accomplish anything, even something that comes out looking more like a mess than a success, who then truly wants to work even a fraction of that amount to make things a little easier for me. Because I know I can do and give and incredible amount when I have the support to be who I’m meant to be. I just need a lot more help to get there!

Thanks for help you all lend with your words; they have such an impact and I feel so enabled when I can do the same by sharing my stories and reflections in return! Now if the rest of the world would just figure out that dynamic :wink: (well, actually, I hear community-based living and extensive mutual support are common in some other societies, or subcultures within this country, but it certainly isn’t popular in the context of mainstream American individualism! But that’s another rant entirely…)

Brynn
(you can find older posts under that screen name that I got locked out of)

Having had to deal with family and friends who actually where in psychosis I can say this that it is nothing i would want for even on someone you thought was your worse enemy.

If person is actually having episodes of it they will act not like themselves at all or their eyes look like they are not here on earth. In my experiences, after calling their doctors every time I was asked to have them locked in mental ward to protect themselves as well as others....such as if they cut themselves and did not stop the bleeding, take too much medication or got in car to drive. They are consider a danger to themselves and others.

Now i can also say that my younger sister had hallucination from benadryl which now is otc drug but was prescribed for poison oak. She was having allergic reaction and that was cause of her not knowing us and acting like someone on drugs..higher than kite...but not in good way. She was trying to hurt us....but since we all older we could stop her. Doctor gave her something to knock her out and let her sleep it off i remember...i was just teenager myself. so drugs can cause hallucinations and more.

So drugs can cause people to act not themselves..but it is different than psychosis. Pred pills if you miss dose or stop it can make you act like you are wacko as many others. Ambien just taking it longer than manufacturers state which is two weeks, can also cause memory and hallucinations so sure other sleeping pills do as well. Mood drugs also ...many many drugs can cause those kind of side effects but having seen drug and real psychosis it is nothing like the other really.

You just feel it coming off the person that something is completely not right about them. Often they will not know you(so far in my experience they did know me) and their eyes..well it is dead give away something is not right in their head plus how they are acting which does not make sense at all.
In fact at only 5% of all SLE patients that is very low number considering all the hundreds of thousands who now are diagnosed with SLE. I am sure that many drugs have side effects such as memory and hallucinations at higher numbers than 5%

BUT i also think it is only positive to know everything we can about SLE just in case. I would urge all people to inform people closest to them that if ever they are hallucinating etc that they call doctor and get you in ASAP.

I really hope and pray that it was drug side effects or lack of sleep or pure exhaustion that really was cause rather than such a horrible thing as being psychotic. But like i said..it is truth about this disease so it is positive to be aware of it....but if you should go into one....your family or friend hopefully will be there. If you are out driving and get pulled over odds are officers are going to do a 5150 which is mandatory 3 day lock up plus evaluation...bad thing is they put you in county mental ward...which normally means a place you would not want love one to be placed in. It is good idea to wear bracelet or necklace identifying you though most officers and even EMT's will not be aware that actual SLE can cause it but thing more it is drug reaction...which is fine just get you to hospital so they can find out.

So really have heart to heart discussion with your doctor and your family if you even slightly believe you it might happen so they know what to do and plus your doctor can recommend which mental ward is best one to get into....if you are in it you will not want to go in. Someone going to have to have the hard decision of doing it. You can sign legal papers that allow friend but you doctor can as well...also than make sure you doctor knows what hospital to send you too if he cannot reach family member...of they often send you where open bed is rather than search a bit.

In my life, that was one of hardest things i had to do and yet people i had to do to it do were very appreciative since they had been placed in county mental wards and at least, officers were able to call me plus EMT's and instead we got them into nice place. But i known other people who their family member resented them for placing them in mental ward...not realizing that either they do it and pick the place or officers were going to do and put them in county. So this is just emotional subject for me and hope and pray that i never have that problem with SLE. I tend to be optimistic about it and think numbers are low..

i sincerely am not saying that none of you have experienced it...but i sincerely hope that it is not true for your own sake and like i said...it is a truth about it so we must stay informed. I just hope that if any person is worried about it that my experiences can make it easier if it should happen or worried it is. Remember first have medical doctor check to make sure not drug reaction. That is thousand times better than being admitted. Also...be very careful about psychiatric in mental wards...they tend to over drug people so go over any drugs they try to add on with your doctors see if they are truly necessarily...you can get in nasty loop of drugs causing you to act not like yourself.

Really sit down and have serious conversation with your best friend be it spouse or whom ever so they know what to do and look for. I just hate to see things i have seen happen when some were totally unnecessary.

I totally understand where you are coming from!!! I suffer from anxiety, depression, and mood disorders all associated with SLE. It was recommended to me by my primary to see a psychiatrist. I, at first, was mortified and terrified!!! The hubs went with me the first time!! It was a very comfortable situation and I was surprised with the results. I have been going every 3-5 weeks now. It is absolutely unbelievable how much better I feel (within reason of course). She started me on low doses of the right medication and therapy. We have talked about everything from my shopping rages to my feelings of guilt because I have lupus.

My suggestion to you, is go talk to a professional. If you ever need someone to talk to about psychosis, you can find all my information on my blog lupieforlife.blogspot.com.

I hope you are having a great Thursday!!!

Tiffany

I totally understand where you are coming from, siskiyousis, however 5% is still 1 in 20. Not such a small number when looked at that way in my opinion.

While it was explained to me that most episodes will hit during a particularly bad "flare", left untreated it could become a complete break. This is what I was trying to get across, that if you are experiencing or others around you are noticing severe changes in your mental processes, you need to see your doc immediately and NOT brush it off as a side-effect.

My background is in education and my specialty was students with EBD (Emotional and Behavioral Disabilities) for the San Diego Unified School District. The reason I mention this is because I do have extensive experience with working with people with several diagnosed psychiatric-only issues. So, on that I am going to have to politely disagree.

I do agree that our meds can cause a range of issues that affect our cognitive ability and mental accuity. This is why I wanted to let people know that ANY change from that normal "fog" need be addressed immediately.

I think that we have enough to deal with with the physical limitations put on us with this disease. Faulty mental processing means that we forget to take our meds, overtake our meds, forget appts, are irritable, angry...just to name a few. These things are crucial to our overall health and faulty mental processing means we are not doing all we can to be proactive in our own care. No one knows what we are feeling if we are afraid to tell them.

I hope that those that read this realize that others have had episodes like this and aren't afraid to mention them to your doctor. Although most won't require anti-psychotic meds and may just require a change to current meds, some may be more severe. Do NOT wait until it is too late to reverse or stop any damage.

Big thanks to everyone for sharing. I know it's not easy and every one of you are incredibly brave!

DeAnne

DeAnne, thanks for creating a positive and welcoming space to discuss these things. As someone who’s experienced it and wants to share my story for others to learn from, it’s helpful to have the encouragement. I’m also early in sorting it out, though very proactive, and hoping for the best.

I wanna see a psychiatrist like the one Tiffany found! I’m having a hard time finding any who can get beyond a purely psychiatric viewpoint. If you don’t mind sharing more details, what meds and therapy techniques have been helpful for you? Friend me and send a private message if you don’t want to post in plain view… But I’ve been on antipsychotics, anxiety drugs and the infamous lithium, so I’m not one to judge or be surprised by anything, and it sure feels good to have a safe place to speak openly about those realities of my life!

It’s easier to talk to you guys than many others, and I must admit I often find myself trying to put on my best face for my doctors! It’s hard because I want them to take my self-knowledge and medical understanding seriously… Still, it doesn’t benefit me to hide things from the people who can help, so thanks for the reminder to keep working on that bravery :slight_smile:

Brynn

Hello DeAnne,

Great discussion brought up here and Lupus when being diagnosed, again stems from the CNS, that's why our minds go anyhow and myself for one can vouche for this being under psychiatric treatement for years besides diagnosis to different ailments in that field.

It helps members understand the reason to why so many mind problems are occuring.

The link below also explains alot if you don't mind me adding it :) xxx

http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/47/10/1498.full

I've recently started to notice things moving out of the corner of my eye, and I turn and nothing is there. I think it's a bug or something moving, but then see nothing. If I'm in the car, I think a light on the dashboard goes on and when I look, there is nothing there. I have SLE, and am not on ANY medication (had an allergic reaction to Plaquenil and have been off since December). Should I mention this to my Rhumy? My GP? I didn't know anyone else experienced this!

Thanks,

Jersey Girl/Judy

Hi there, girl!

I've missed you (and been worried) So glad you are back with us. You know I never mind you adding as I have learned so much from you...especially the being brave and proactive.

Thanks so much for sharing.

XOXO,

DeAnne

Tez_20 said:

Hello DeAnne,

Great discussion brought up here and Lupus when being diagnosed, again stems from the CNS, that's why our minds go anyhow and myself for one can vouche for this being under psychiatric treatement for years besides diagnosis to different ailments in that field.

It helps members understand the reason to why so many mind problems are occuring.

The link below also explains alot if you don't mind me adding it :) xxx

http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/47/10/1498.full

Hi there, JerseyGirl,

I would definitely mention it to your doctor. If your Rhuemy is any good they already know that your SLE can cause these issues.

And please, if you have a reaction to Plaquenil, there are other medications that can slow or prevent that deterioration. I have actually run red lights because I thought the color had changed. I was a danger to myself and didn't even know it.

For me a journal is VERY helpful, as I chart my thoughts and emotions for that day and any unexplained issues. This is helpful not only to me but my doctor, as I can say with certainty what happened on any given day.

Good luck and good health!

DeAnne

JerseyGirl said:

I've recently started to notice things moving out of the corner of my eye, and I turn and nothing is there. I think it's a bug or something moving, but then see nothing. If I'm in the car, I think a light on the dashboard goes on and when I look, there is nothing there. I have SLE, and am not on ANY medication (had an allergic reaction to Plaquenil and have been off since December). Should I mention this to my Rhumy? My GP? I didn't know anyone else experienced this!

Thanks,

Jersey Girl/Judy

Deanne thanks for sharing sometimes i get like that whats worst is if im out with my guy ill see ither women look at him then i always accuse of being a dog but when i feel good i wont fight thanks Debbie

Oh wow! I have had that out of the corner of my eye to. Not all of the time, but every once in awhile.

Deborah, totally agreed on getting irrational at times on relationship concerns… I’m often overreacting out of character depending on my mood or anxiety levels, and sometimes get to the point of persistent paranoia! It sure doesn’t help that my longest-term relationship was with a guy who WAS actually lying and cheating, as well as manipulating, so I have some real reasons to mistrust. Add to that the fact that I know any ultimate partner of mine would be responsible for my medical illness in case of mental incapacitation, which is known to happen occasionally… It’s such a challenge to form a secure relationship when I have so much insecurity in my own experience and know there’s so much at stake when I decide to trust someone. The absolute worst is when I meet someone I know I can trust, then kill it by being too jealous, overreactive or paranoid about the smallest things. I’m hoping the therapy I’m starting now will help with this.

Brynn,

Realizing that it is an issue is an important first step. You are very courageous!

Best of Luck!

DeAnne

Amaryllis said:

Deborah, totally agreed on getting irrational at times on relationship concerns... I'm often overreacting out of character depending on my mood or anxiety levels, and sometimes get to the point of persistent paranoia! It sure doesn't help that my longest-term relationship was with a guy who WAS actually lying and cheating, as well as manipulating, so I have some real reasons to mistrust. Add to that the fact that I know any ultimate partner of mine would be responsible for my medical illness in case of mental incapacitation, which is known to happen occasionally... It's such a challenge to form a secure relationship when I have so much insecurity in my own experience and know there's so much at stake when I decide to trust someone. The absolute worst is when I meet someone I know I can trust, then kill it by being too jealous, overreactive or paranoid about the smallest things. I'm hoping the therapy I'm starting now will help with this.

Actually i agree with all you say....i often answer when i am really tired and maybe do not get what i am trying to say across the best way.

Anyone having any kind of new symptoms be it mental or physical should have either family or friend notify your doctor if you are not able. I just was trying to inform other like if you are having mental issues and it is friend they will need to have legal rights to make any choices for you which might be excellent thing to set up if people do not have family as support. Plus what will possibly could happen to them and how to prepare for it ahead of time to get the best care possible.

I still think the numbers are low. Or i look at it that i have been in SLE groups since 80's and yet to have heard of one person who actually had psychotic episode. I have met where it does effect their brain which was physical not mental issue. numbers bounce to highest being 5 but often state 2%.

I also did speak about this since one of people who i had to admit was family member so since both my brother and I had auto immune diseases, i brought up to doctor about if this could be caused by SLE. I was told that it is extremely rare, in fact that this doctor and all doctors he knew in Bay area had not seen one real case of psychosis due to lupus. That was just his professional opinion as well as psychiatrist who is excellent.

But sure the numbers change as they know more and more about this. I also know that some people over worry about possibility of it happening to them so i like to try and calm those kind of people down. Yes we all should be aware about it but odds are i believe, that it is not likely to happen. Maybe i am just optimistic or am one of those that kind that believe strongly about body mind connections...so i rather think odds are in my favor and most others too!! : )



whathappensinvegas said:

I totally understand where you are coming from, siskiyousis, however 5% is still 1 in 20. Not such a small number when looked at that way in my opinion.

While it was explained to me that most episodes will hit during a particularly bad "flare", left untreated it could become a complete break. This is what I was trying to get across, that if you are experiencing or others around you are noticing severe changes in your mental processes, you need to see your doc immediately and NOT brush it off as a side-effect.

My background is in education and my specialty was students with EBD (Emotional and Behavioral Disabilities) for the San Diego Unified School District. The reason I mention this is because I do have extensive experience with working with people with several diagnosed psychiatric-only issues. So, on that I am going to have to politely disagree.

I do agree that our meds can cause a range of issues that affect our cognitive ability and mental accuity. This is why I wanted to let people know that ANY change from that normal "fog" need be addressed immediately.

I think that we have enough to deal with with the physical limitations put on us with this disease. Faulty mental processing means that we forget to take our meds, overtake our meds, forget appts, are irritable, angry...just to name a few. These things are crucial to our overall health and faulty mental processing means we are not doing all we can to be proactive in our own care. No one knows what we are feeling if we are afraid to tell them.

I hope that those that read this realize that others have had episodes like this and aren't afraid to mention them to your doctor. Although most won't require anti-psychotic meds and may just require a change to current meds, some may be more severe. Do NOT wait until it is too late to reverse or stop any damage.

Big thanks to everyone for sharing. I know it's not easy and every one of you are incredibly brave!

DeAnne

Hello Judy,

When you was took off the plaquenil through the allergy did they say your retina to the eyes was still ok as this is the main cause of damage with plaquenil.

I'm not a doctor to diagnose but this could possibly be the cause and it involves the Retina of the eye...so please get your eyes rechecked or mention it to your specialist:

"Corner of the eye phenomenon" - Also known as "Entoptic phenomena"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entoptic_phenomenon

Hugs Terri xxx

JerseyGirl said:

I've recently started to notice things moving out of the corner of my eye, and I turn and nothing is there. I think it's a bug or something moving, but then see nothing. If I'm in the car, I think a light on the dashboard goes on and when I look, there is nothing there. I have SLE, and am not on ANY medication (had an allergic reaction to Plaquenil and have been off since December). Should I mention this to my Rhumy? My GP? I didn't know anyone else experienced this!

Thanks,

Jersey Girl/Judy