Concerned lupus may be attacking my nervous system

Hello and happy Friday!
I am concerned that my nervous system is being attacked. I called my rheumy, and they sounded concerned about my symptoms, but the earliest they could get me in is 2/28! :stuck_out_tongue:

My hands shake at random moments, I trip over my words, I can’t think of what I want to say or remember the names of basic things, I have SUPER brain fog, I get dizzy… all in spurts. I’ll be fine for a while and then it happens again. The worst is I have found that occasionaly
I have been staring off into space and time has passed… one time it was about 15 min. !
I am quiet worried about this :frowning:
Had anyone else experienced this?

I had this happen to me several years ago but as it turned out it was a combo of my medications! I hope that it is something as simple for you. In the mean time try not to worry! I know that is easier said than done but stressing about it could make it worse. Good Luck to you and God Bless!

Piewacket

Wow! I used to have a mixture of the absence and complex partials all the time when I was younger and then again right before more diagnosis. It would happen when I was driving and then I would be at end of the street and be suddenly very confused about how I had gotten there. The worst one I was extremely dizzy and couldn’t get it to stop. I drove myself to the er and after I drove over a bridge I lapsed till I was in the hosptial bthroom and didn’t. Know how I had got there and was extremely confused with a migraine. All of those large episodes have stopped since they put me on plquenil. But I still have the muscle jerking occasionally and my feet get really cold and tingling and I loose sensation in them and have trouble walking. Is this lupus in my nrevous system also?

Hello Laurie,

"Julie" as given you some excellent advice and i have absense seizures besides and also seizures which the neuro said 2wks back shutting down seizures.

You do need a thorough check on everything Julie as said because CNS is the main issue with Lupus all steming from the brain.

Also vertigo can cause dizzeness which again Lupus can cause...so your rheumo needs to cover alot of issues besides you being sent to a neuro like again Julie as mentioned.

Best of luck and please keep we updated on yourself besides your progress with tests :)

Hugs Terri xxx

123tagged.Com

Hi Heather,

Besides all the great info "Julie" as put your way...Lupus can also cause Raynauds with what your explaining with your feet...have you been checked out for this as it follows Lupus patients in a large percentage and with nerve damage besides you'll feel these symptoms alot more.

As i have CNS damage besides Raynauds and chilblains ontop and the symptoms are pleasant.

Love Terri xxx

Heather said:

Wow! I used to have a mixture of the absence and complex partials all the time when I was younger and then again right before more diagnosis. It would happen when I was driving and then I would be at end of the street and be suddenly very confused about how I had gotten there. The worst one I was extremely dizzy and couldn't get it to stop. I drove myself to the er and after I drove over a bridge I lapsed till I was in the hosptial bthroom and didn't. Know how I had got there and was extremely confused with a migraine. All of those large episodes have stopped since they put me on plquenil. But I still have the muscle jerking occasionally and my feet get really cold and tingling and I loose sensation in them and have trouble walking. Is this lupus in my nrevous system also?

Unfortunately, yes. I have had and continue to have some similar symptoms to yours. It just seems to be a Lupus thing. I was thinking it was Lupus destroying my brain, which is close enough to, and tied in with the nervous system. Lupus destroys organs, and the brain is one. I suspect that the nervous system might be considered an organ, also. I really do hope that someone finds a cure for this condition. It is literally destroying lives.

Wow, thanks for the info. I was wondering what was going on when I quite frequently space out, and don't see what is happening until a bit later. I actually locked myself out of the house the other day, and don't remember a thing about how that happened. I will often go to the door to let the dogs in, then don't see when they come in. I have to look behind me, into the house to see if they made it in.

jujubeee said:

No Laurie, I haven't had any "absence seizures", but I have monoclyonic seizures-the jerky kind like when your about to fall asleep and jerk around a bit. Here's some info on absence seizures. Also your rheumie will want you to see a neurologist for testing for this, he should order for you an MRI to get a good look at your brain and CNS, and an EEG to test your brain waves for a seizure disorder. He may also order you an EMG to see how your messages between your nerves and muscles are going. Your GP can give you a referral to a neurologist as well! :)

Here's some great info about types of seizures and symptoms from epilepsy.com:

What are they like?

Here's a typical story: Frank, a 7-year-old boy, often "blanks out" anywhere from a few seconds to 20 seconds at a time. During a seizure, Frank doesn't seem to hear his teacher call his name, he usually blinks repetitively, and his eyes may roll up a bit. During shorter seizures, he just stares. Then he continues on as if nothing happened. Some days Frank has more than 50 of these spells.

How long do they last?

Usually less than 10 seconds, but it can be as long as 20. They begin and end suddenly.

Tell me more

Absence seizures are brief episodes of staring. (Although the name looks like a regular English word, your neurologist may pronounce it ab-SAWNTZ.) Another name for them is petit mal (PET-ee mahl). During the seizure, awareness and responsiveness are impaired. People who have them usually don't realize when they've had one. There is no warning before a seizure, and the person is completely alert immediately afterward.

Simple absence seizures are just stares. Many absence seizures are considered complex absence seizures, which means that they include a change in muscle activity. The most common movements are eye blinks. Other movements include slight tasting movements of the mouth, hand movements such as rubbing the fingers together, and contraction or relaxation of the muscles. Complex absence seizures are often more than 10 seconds long.

Who gets them?

Absence seizures usually begin between ages 4 and 14. The children who get them usually have normal development and intelligence.

What's the outlook?

In nearly 70% of cases, absence seizures stop by age 18. Children who develop absence seizures before age 9 are much more likely to outgrow them than children whose absence seizures start after age 10.

Children with absence seizures do have higher rates of behavioral, educational, and social problems.

What else could it be?

Absence seizures can resemble some complex partial seizures or episodes of daydreaming:

Questions to Ask

Daydreaming

Seizures

How frequent are the episodes? Not frequent. Complex partial: Rarely more than several times per day or week.
Absence: Could be many times per day.
In what situations do they occur? Boring situation. Any time, including during physical activity; often with hyperventilation (deep or rapid breathing.)
Do they begin abruptly? No. Usually yes. Some complex partial seizures begin slowly with a warning.
Can they be interrupted? Yes. No.
How long do they last? Until something interesting happens. Complex partial: Up to several minutes
Absence: Rarely more than 15-20 seconds
Does the person do anything during the episode? Probably just stares. Complex partial: Automatisms are common.
Absence: Just stares.
What is the person like immediately after the episode? Alert. Complex partial: Confused.
Absence: Alert.

How is the diagnosis made?

The EEG (electroencephalogram), which records brain waves, is helpful in diagnosing absence seizures. Having the child breathe very rapidly often will produce a seizure. Images of the brain such as CT and MRI scans are usually normal, so they are seldom needed if the EEG and other features are typical.

There are lots of other types of seizures too Laurie. Here's a link: Types of Seizures

Also here is a link to my video of a quick myoclonic seizure I had the other day.

Ask your doctor for testing. It's your decision to make, not his, you know. At the end of the day, it's YOU who goes home and deals with it, not him. Just saying..much Love Laurie, Julie

WOW! Thank you all for responding! We have some educated people on here! :slight_smile:
Now I have something to bring to my Dr. at the end of the month. Thank you!!!

yeah Laurie I went through something similar to your experience and they took me off some of my meds as, they thought that it was a combination of my medications as well causing the episodes. It helped a little, but I still go through the episodes from time to time, but not as bad as before. Good Luck!!!! Many blessings and hugs.

Thanks for the video. When I was in the hospital and on IV Demerol pain pump. I had the same type seizures and it went away after I was taken off Demerol. I also would have involuntary arm and leg movement.

CNS involvement with Lupus is very possible. I know that I have this with Brain Fog, loss of memory unable to concentrate or achieve simple tasks that require me mentally to engage in.

Some of it maybe disease or is it side effects from all the drugs we take?

Hello Laurie,

Your welcome and to actually see what's causing this all the issues julie as covered besides tests which i've had myself and still do to keep monitored need doing...don't be fobbed off throw the lot at your rheumo. LOL

Love Terri xxx

Laurie said:

WOW! Thank you all for responding! We have some educated people on here! :)
Now I have something to bring to my Dr. at the end of the month. Thank you!!!!

Hello Seepy,

It sounds like you've been through a fare bit...the trouble with Lupus it can cause all the issues people have happen naturally and like you pointed out sometimes it's a combination of both Lupus and meds causing issues. :)

Sleepy said:

Thanks for the video. When I was in the hospital and on IV Demerol pain pump. I had the same type seizures and it went away after I was taken off Demerol. I also would have involuntary arm and leg movement.

CNS involvement with Lupus is very possible. I know that I have this with Brain Fog, loss of memory unable to concentrate or achieve simple tasks that require me mentally to engage in.

Some of it maybe disease or is it side effects from all the drugs we take?

I have not experience any of this but this does sound like stroke symptoms. I would go to my regular dr. or to the ER. This sounds very serious!

Hi Laurie,

Apparently all of us, or a significant number of us, have experienced some or all of these same symptoms. You really hit a nerve with your topic! All I can add is, this is apparently the usual for people with Lupus.

I had CNS problems with my Lupus and my doctor put me on the chemo medication cytoxian it' not fun but you can get through it. Since then I have not had any problems with CNS Lupus. Hang in there you can do this! You are in my prayers.

Piewacket

RJQ said:

Hi Laurie,

Apparently all of us, or a significant number of us, have experienced some or all of these same symptoms. You really hit a nerve with your topic! All I can add is, this is apparently the usual for people with Lupus.

Dear Donatella I know that you are afraid but have you ever asked you doctor if maybe the symptoms you are having maybe panic attacks? I know you have a lot to deal with but when I thought about it I remembered when something similar happened to me it can't hurt to ask your doc if maybe what is happening to you may be anxiety My doc gave me some medications for stress and anxiety and it help a lot. God know that Lupus patients have a lot to deal with not to mention every day life. I'm not saying that you should not have these symptoms checked out maybe by a neurologist just to be on the safe side and if every thing checks out ask your doc for some anxiety meds. Please let me know how you are doing. I would really like to hear from you. Remember that it is YOUR body and you are the one in charge. Please let me know if you are doing any better.

May God Bless you,

Piewacket

Piewacket said:

I had CNS problems with my Lupus and my doctor put me on the chemo medication cytoxian it' not fun but you can get through it. Since then I have not had any problems with CNS Lupus. Hang in there you can do this! You are in my prayers.

Piewacket

RJQ said:

Hi Laurie,

Apparently all of us, or a significant number of us, have experienced some or all of these same symptoms. You really hit a nerve with your topic! All I can add is, this is apparently the usual for people with Lupus.

I am sorry, I haven't heard of CNS Lupus! I thought I'd heard it all ! LOL! Can you give a definition, please?

Piewacket said:

I had CNS problems with my Lupus and my doctor put me on the chemo medication cytoxian it' not fun but you can get through it. Since then I have not had any problems with CNS Lupus. Hang in there you can do this! You are in my prayers.

Piewacket

RJQ said:

Hi Laurie,

Apparently all of us, or a significant number of us, have experienced some or all of these same symptoms. You really hit a nerve with your topic! All I can add is, this is apparently the usual for people with Lupus.

Hello RJQ,

CNS lupus...is the central nerve system from the starting of the brain which control everything our bodies go through...some cases can be mild with certain symptoms to extreme.

This link is excellent explaining about it and also what it causes.

http://www.lupusinternational.com/About-Lupus-1-1/Central-Nervous-System-Lupus-Overview-/Central-Nervous-System-Lupus-CNS-.aspx

Terri :)

Full information on CNS (Central nervous system)

What is CNS lupus?
Central nervous system (CNS) lupus refers to several different neurological and/or behavioral clinical syndromes in patients with systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE). The neuropsychiatric manifestations of lupus, which are frequent, vary from mild to severe and are often difficult to distinguish from other conditions and etiologies. Any location within the central nervous system (brain and spinal cord) may be affected with a variety of presentations from mild cognitive dysfunction to seizures, stroke or coma. Table 1 summarizes the major manifestations of CNS lupus. (adapted from “The Lupus Book”- Daniel J Wallace, M.D.)
Table 1: Major manifestations of CNS lupus.
Cognitive dysfunction (not thinking clearly, memory deficits)
Headaches
Seizure
Altered mental alertness (e.g. stupor or coma)
Aseptic meningitis (inflammation of the covering of the brain)
Stroke (disturbance of the blood supply to different parts of the brain)
Peripheral neuropathy (e.g. numbness, tingling, burning of the hands and feet)
Movement disorders
Myelitis (disruption) of the spinal cord.
Visual alternations
Autonomic neuropathy (e.g., flushing reaction or mottled skin)
Until recently, only those syndromes with specific neuropathology were considered to be part of the CNS lupus syndrome (for e.g., seizures, strokes, paralysis), and these conditions were thought to affect about 25% of lupus patients. In the last decade with early detection (through CT, MRI and PET scans) and improved aggressive treatment the incidence of these conditions has decreased. However, the overall incidence of CNS lupus has increased because of the recognition of conditions such as cognitive dysfunction and lupus headaches as discrete entities even though there is no specific pathology that can be found in the brain to explain these conditions. Thus, CNS lupus is now considered as being present in many patients with SLE at some point during the disease.
What causes CNS Lupus?
A variety of pathological processes may be involved in CNS lupus. The blood supply to a particular part of the brain can be disrupted due to autoimmune vasculitis (blood vessel inflammation), or clots formed as a result of antiphospholipid antibodies, or emboli that travel from a cardiac source. In some lupus patients, the thickness of their blood is increased causing hyperviscosity and this may disrupt blood flow. Anti-neuronal antibodies also may be produced in some lupus patients; these can have direct effects on the cells of the brain (neurons) and alter their function. The choroid plexus, a part of the brain that is the source of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF- a fluid bathing brain and spinal cord) may be involved thus causing diffuse problems. Several cytokines such as interleukin-1, interleukin-6 and interferon-γ are increased in CNS lupus and these have a direct effect on the neurons and can interfere with their function. Abnormalities of the hormones produced in the hypothalamus, pituitary and adrenal glands (the HPA axis) are common in lupus due to the disease itself as well as the effects of steroids and these abnormalities can cause some of the CNS disturbances lupus.
In addition, a number of secondary factors lead to the manifestations of CNS lupus such as infection (lupus patients are more prone to certain types of infections), medications (several drugs such as corticosteroids have significant CNS toxicity), hypertension, electrolyte imbalances, uremia (renal failure), thyroid disease, atherosclerotic strokes, and subdural hematomas. The concomitant presence of fibromyalgia in lupus patients is associated with an increase in functional neurological problems such as anxiety and cognitive dysfunction.
What are the clinical manifestations of CNS lupus?
The spectrum of clinical presentations in CNS lupus is broad. The major clinical syndromes seen in CNS lupus are:
CNS vasculitis: This is an inflammation of the brain’s blood vessels due to lupus activity. This is the most serious syndrome associated with lupus, and is one of the two specific CNS syndromes that are part of the American College of Rheumatology’s criteria for defining lupus. It usually occurs early in the course of disease (over 80% of episodes occur within the first five years of disease), being seen in about 10% of lupus patients. The typical patient presents with fevers, seizures, meningitis like stiffness of the neck, and psychotic or bizarre behavior. Brain MRI may demonstrate multiple or single areas with infarcts. A spinal tap may be needed to diagnose this condition (and exclude infection), and usually shows a high number of cells, high protein level and a high synthesis rate of immunoglobulins. Anti-neuronal antibodies may be present in the serum and/or the CSF. Usually, high dose steroids and/or cytoxan are needed to treat this syndrome.
The Antiphospholipid syndrome: Anyone who has antiphospholipid antibodies as part of their lupus syndrome is at risk to develop blood clots, which could form in vessels supplying the brain, or travel to the brain after forming in the heart or elsewhere in the body. Blood clots to the brain (called thromboembolic events) can occur suddenly, and are usually painless. Patients may have sudden onset of paralysis, or loss of speech. Lupus does not have to be “active”, for a clot to be formed. MRI and CT scans may show a blood clot. Treatment includes the usual management of a stroke, and perhaps immunosuppresant medication; but all patients who have high levels of antiphospholipid antibodies in significant amounts should be given prophylactic blood thinners (aspirin and/or coumadin) to prevent strokes and other blood clot complications.
Lupus Headache: Headaches are common in lupus patients, occurring in up to 45-50% of patients. Most investigators feel that headache as a manifestation of CNS lupus occurs as an acute presentation during a lupus flare in association with other neurologic complications. Usually abnormal laboratory tests are seen, and usually lupus headaches resolve with corticosteroid therapy as lupus disease activity improves. However, many lupus patients have headaches, which are not related to disease activity or other manifestations of lupus. Amazingly, in one well controlled study, the overall incidence of headaches, migraine and tension type were similar to the general population. Thus, there is some controversy whether there is an increase in headache incidence in lupus. Older studies reported that migraine headaches were more common in lupus patients, and the headaches were usually associated with Raynaud’s phenomenon, antiphospholipid antibodies, and/or thrombotic events. However, more recent controlled studies have not confirmed these associations. Thus lupus headache as a distinct entity remains controversial and unless the headaches are associated with other neurological complications suggestive of CNS lupus, (in which case they are treated with steroids) they are usually treated symptomatically with anti-migraine medications, or anti-inflammatories such as naproxen, or ergot derivatives.
Lupus myelitis: Myelitis refers to dysfunction of the spinal cord. This is a serious complication of lupus that causes paralysis or weakness and ranges from difficulty in moving one limb to paraplegia. It is caused either by inflammation (lupus vasculitis) of the sac that surrounds the spinal cord, or by clots in the arteries supplying the spinal cord (usually caused by antiphospholipid antibodies). Steroids and/or immunosuppresants are usually used to treat inflammation from vasculitis, and anticoagulants such as heparin and coumadin are usually added on. Chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy (CIDP) and post-infectious Guillain-Barre syndrome are other conditions that can cause spinal cord dysfunction, which have a higher prevalence in SLE and may be responsive to intravenous immunoglobulin therapy.
Autonomic nervous system dysfunction: The autonomic nervous system is that part of the nervous system which controls involuntary body functions such as regulating the heart beat, breathing, sweating etc. Although this has been poorly studied, the autonomic nervous system may function abnormally in many lupus patients. Examples of autonomic dysfunction include Raynaud’s phenomenon, cognitive impairment, livedo reticularis (a mottled skin rash), and tingling and numbness of the extremities. Other causes for these symptoms usually need to be ruled out, and this syndrome is usually treated symptomatically.
Cognitive dysfunction: Lupus patients frequently complain of confusion, profound fatigue, difficulty in articulating thoughts, and memory impairment. While blood testing confirms the presence of Lupus, other laboratory tests are usually normal. Conventional imaging and CSF examination are usually normal. A superficial mental state exam performed in a physicians office usually does not reveal any abnormalities, but more detailed neuropsychiatric testing usually reveals abnormalities in focusing, attention span, task completion, memory and decreased problem solving capabilities. A SPECT scan (a radionuclear brain scan) usually shows some abnormalities. Currently, cognitive dysfunction is thought to be caused by circulating chemicals called cytokines, and blood flow abnormalities to different parts of the brain. Cognitive dysfunction must be differentiated from depression, fibromyalgia, and behavioral alterations due to medication, infections, strokes, sleep disorders and other brain abnormalities. Usually, the symptoms of cognitive dysfunction are intermittent. Corticosteroids are have not been shown to be effective, but anti-malarials such as plaquanil and quinacrine could be helpful. Tricyclic antidepressants, or selective serotonin uptake inhibitors (prozac, zoloft, lexapro, effexor, cymbalta etc.) may be helpful, and cognitive behavioral therapy, and EEG or regular biofeedback may be very useful. Lastly, DHEA, St. John’s Wort and gingko biloba are complementary medicine alternatives.
Organic Brain syndrome: When lupus patients have a stroke or lupus vasculitis insult, these lesions may heal with scarring, which results in a permanent motor, sensory or mental deficit or even seizures. This condition resulting from a permanent damage to the CNS is known as organic brain syndrome. Its importance lays in its recognition, since there is no need to treat these lesions with immunosuppressive medicines, but they are treated symptomatically or with anti-seizure medications.
Other manifestations of CNS lupus: Abnormalities of the peripheral nerves are seen with frequency in lupus patients. This leads to painful neuropathy with tingling and numbness of the extremities. Pharmaceutical agents used to treat lupus may affect the CNS. For example, the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs such as indomethacin, tolmectin, sulindac and ibuprofen have been associated with headaches. Very high doses of anti-malarials have been associated with manic behavior and psychosis as have corticosteroids. Infections of the CNS can mimic CNS lupus. Infections such as TB, meningococcus, staphylococcus, and streptococcus are common in SLE. Lastly, opportunistic infections (they occur in patients being treated with high doses of steroids or immunosuppressive medications, by pathogens that are not normally harmful), can mimic lupus and need to be excluded when considering a diagnosis of CNS lupus.

Thanks. Very interesting. I copy/pasted this into an email for a couple friends and a few of my relatives to give them more info on what is happening with me.