Need counsel

General
1

My husband and I (he’s a pastor), have been working with a couple who has come to us for marriage counseling. We have known both of them for over 20 years.

The wife has lupus, but after major surgery two years ago has really gone downhill. She is currently taking tons of meds, including oxycodone, vicodin, and prednisone regularly. She is also taking an antidepressant. However, it seems that her personality has changed. She is now unable to see anything positive, and is increasingly unstable, angry, and even starting to appear even paranoid at times. Any conflict is blamed on other family members or her lupus. Most days she pretty much stays in bed all day, and when she is awake, will often fall asleep in the middle of conversations. This is NOT ANYTHING like the bubbly, vibrant, highly intelligent person we have known over the years.

When I started researching lupus to better understand what she was going through, I found information that led me to consider that some of what we were seeing could possibly be caused by side effects/interactions with her meds (including emotions, rationality, and perhaps even pain levels being off course). When I made the suggestion that I thought she was struggling too hard, and maybe could look to see if some of her meds were interacting the wrong way or were causing some side effects, it touched a huge nerve. She started yelling, sobbing, pointing fingers, and accusing everyone of being against her. At this point, we started to realize whatever was going on was maybe even larger than we had imagined. She was so upset, that had her husband not been going home with her, I would have been worried about suicide (she did NOT mention this – but she was so irrational that we didn’t know what on earth was going to happen next.). Please help! Is this normal?

It feels like she is in danger and something is very wrong, but we can’t figure out what to do. She is still able to present somewhat normally when out in public, so there is some control still there, but it is only adding to the burden her husband and children are feeling, as the person in their home is apparently very different than the person that others see. Her husband expressed relief that finally someone else had seen for themselves what was happening to her. He is very afraid for her, and so are we.

Thanks for any insight anyone might have.

2

Its wonderful of you and your husband to be counseling this couple! Would she be willing to join our LWL family? My first thought is that her meds and the pain we encounter is wearing on her. I cry for little to no reason, and I am a positive person. How is her lupus, mild, moderate or severe? Has anyone been going with her to her r hematologist, or her family doctor? We get confused. We forgot to tell the doctors things. I went to my orthopedic dr by myself yesterday, as my husband couldn't get away from work. I was in the office for almost 2 1/2 hours. I was getting tired, and I could hear voices in the next room so I knew I was next. I stopped and said a prayer and asked that God help me to think clearly and remember what I needed to tell him. I didn't have to fumble and remember - the doctor took care of it all.

If you are all that afraid for her, and can't figure out what to do, maybe she needs some in treatment? The prednisone, the vicodin the combination of the meds and just lupus itself cause us depression and mood swings.

If you were trying to help an alcoholic and weren't one yourself - you would probably refer them to AA or rehab? We would love to talk with her here, its so amazing to talk with others who understand what we are going through.

Please, please keep us informed and let us know how she is? God Bless you and your husband and the woman and her family : ) Love, Trisha

3

Trisha - Thanks so much for answering! Her lupus appears to be very severe. There was one night when she was sobbing and shaking, laying on the floor from extreme pain in her leg, absolutely refusing to go to the hospital, but telling her husband "if something happens to me, remember to tell someone that I had this pain in my leg all day." He was beside himself, and eventually called us (1am!) and he put the phone to her ear. We just said "we're coming over right now (they are an hour away) and we are going to stay until you agree to go to the hospital." That did the trick, she actually agreed to go to the hospital, and we met them there, where she was put on some massive doses of pain killers, which finally gave her some pain relief. They were also able to make sure she didn't have any blood clots, which was our main concern when we heard she had leg pain. But instead of being happy, she was angry that we made her go. She simply could not (still cannot) process that it wasn't fair to have her family watch her in that kind of pain, knowing it could possibly be life threatening, and yet also demand that they do nothing.

Based on what we've seen so far, I would imagine that she will be highly offended at the idea of someone going with her to the doctor. I was going to suggest that very thing, but never got past the suggestion that SHE go to her doctor to have the meds re-evaluated in light of what we were seeing. She just doesn't see it, and feels that she is fine and she knows what she is doing. We on the other hand, are afraid that what she is doing is going to kill her.

An example of life in their home is this. She will say that she is going to make dinner. When others say, no, we will take care of it, she gets angry with them, because they don't understand that she is capable of making dinner. When they come home, there is no dinner. She then gets angry at them again if they express any frustration, even though they have to run right back out for practice -- now without dinner, or with whatever they can find around the house. She will also get angry if one of them decides to just go ahead and make dinner after she has said that she would do it. They simply cannot win no matter who tries what. As a result, they are constantly frustrated, guilty, and on edge. When I told her that I had been researching lupus to better understand her, she was angry with me because she already "knows all that stuff." ?????

I have now started to wonder if the pain meds are being used improperly, or if they have resulted in addiction-like behavior. Plus, her behavior is on the list of side effects for virtually everything she is taking. We have participated in interventions to get alcoholics into treatment, but the idea of an intervention for lupus sounds a little weird!!!! Never-the-less, I guess when we find ourselves wondering if she is going to swallow an entire bottle of painkillers in a fit of rage, I guess we have entered new territory and might have to start thinking outside the box.

When I first found this site, I was initially hoping that she would join. I am even signed up under a different name so it wouldn't freak her out to find me here if she checked it out! (of course, now that I have shared this kind of detail, it might take a bit more work to hide myself!) At this point, I don't even know if she will want to see me for a while, let alone take any advice.

Our main focus has moved from restoring the marriage to trying to figure out exactly how at risk she is, and what we need to do. Our friendship is secondary to protecting her. The only problem is that we have no idea how to do that.

Thanks so much for listening and for your suggestions. Any further thoughts now that I have added in more details? :)

4

I think you're right about the meds. Cortisone can cause huge anger issues, paranoia, etc. by itself. When you spoke of meds, she probably thought she was being attacked for taking pain meds. That's what hit the nerve. WE get that all the time, condemnation about taking strong pain meds. When athletes take steroids, their personality changes and some have even been on the news for domestic violence while on them. I know the anti- depressants are notorious for causing suicidal feelings in younger people and in some people who are sensitive to those meds. It's scary to approach a raging person like that. Maybe you could email her the information just about cortisone, and say "It's possible that too high of doses of cortisone are causing the problem. Your doctor could slowly taper you down to a smaller dose." Then cut and paste the info from this link into the letter. http://www.drugs.com/sfx/cortisone-side-effects.html because I'm sure she's so angry she would not even click on a link. Part of it says:

Call your doctor at once if you have any of these serious side effects:

  • problems with your vision;

  • swelling, rapid weight gain, feeling short of breath;

  • severe depression, unusual thoughts or behavior, seizure (convulsions)

    Maybe copy and paste the side effects of her anti-depressant, because it WILL say to watch out for suicidal thoughts and paranoia etc.

    Also, lupus can attack the CNS (central nervous system) and cause all of her issues. So it's hard to know the exact cause. I wish you could talk to her Dr. She should be in the hospital to sort all this out and find the cause. I wouldn't like her to go to the mental ward though, because they take away all your meds there and fast withdrawal from all these meds can be fatal. They have to be tapered off.

    Tell her that even though our husbands vow "for better and for worse", the reality is that 80% of us end up alone because a spouse can only take so much, and that she needs to see her Dr. and hopefully get admitted, to save her marriage.

    You have your hands full. God bless you to be inspired to know what to say and do.

5

Mia - Thanks also for your answer! Yes, she has a good support system. Almost all housework is done by her husband and kids, and it is not problem for them to take on more. The difficult part is that when they try to help, she gets angry, and when they don't help, she gets angry, and they are now all getting angry because they can't do the right thing. Her husband is exhausted -- he works all day, cooks, cleans and drives kids all over the place. The support is there for her, and there is much concern and worry expressed on all sides. The problem is that she doesn't seem to be assessing things normally . . . I have known her for many years, and that is the part that is scaring me the most. She doesn't seem to see that her kids are afraid that they are losing their mother.

This kind of denial doesn't seem to fit in with what you and the others on this board share. I have read many who express frustration that you cannot meet all the needs in your home. But it seems that you still can empathize with the others for the burdens they carry as part of a family that has lupus in the mix, even though the burden you yourself carry is overwhelming. It hasn't made you lose sight of others. This is the part that we are worried about. She will announce that she is going to do something extreme/impossible for her physical condition, then lash out if there is any offer of help . . . and she will also lash out if she tries something and no help is offered.

Everyone WANTS to help!!! But no matter what is tried, they have their motives questioned and end up feeling like they are in the wrong.

There is something in this mix that isn't normal. I have had friends with chronic illnesses, and I have had friends who suffer depression. What we are seeing is different, and leaves us sick with worry for her -- I don't remember ever feeling this way before, except in the cases of addiction.

Any advice???? This is really complicated and I really appreciate any and all help you can offer. I don't want to make things worse for her . . . but I want to protect her if that is what is needed. What do you think? Kristin

6



Sheila W. said:

I think you're right about the meds. Cortisone can cause huge anger issues, paranoia, etc. by itself. When you spoke of meds, she probably thought she was being attacked for taking pain meds. That's what hit the nerve. WE get that all the time, condemnation about taking strong pain meds. When athletes take steroids, their personality changes and some have even been on the news for domestic violence while on them. I know the anti- depressants are notorious for causing suicidal feelings in younger people and in some people who are sensitive to those meds. It's scary to approach a raging person like that. Maybe you could email her the information just about cortisone, and say "It's possible that too high of doses of cortisone are causing the problem. Your doctor could slowly taper you down to a smaller dose." Then cut and paste the info from this link into the letter. http://www.drugs.com/sfx/cortisone-side-effects.html because I'm sure she's so angry she would not even click on a link. Part of it says:

Call your doctor at once if you have any of these serious side effects:

  • problems with your vision;

  • swelling, rapid weight gain, feeling short of breath;

  • severe depression, unusual thoughts or behavior, seizure (convulsions)

    Maybe copy and paste the side effects of her anti-depressant, because it WILL say to watch out for suicidal thoughts and paranoia etc.

    Also, lupus can attack the CNS (central nervous system) and cause all of her issues. So it's hard to know the exact cause. I wish you could talk to her Dr. She should be in the hospital to sort all this out and find the cause. I wouldn't like her to go to the mental ward though, because they take away all your meds there and fast withdrawal from all these meds can be fatal. They have to be tapered off.

    Tell her that even though our husbands vow "for better and for worse", the reality is that 80% of us end up alone because a spouse can only take so much, and that she needs to see her Dr. and hopefully get admitted, to save her marriage.

    You have your hands full. God bless you to be inspired to know what to say and do.

7



Sheila W. said:

8



Kristin said: Ok, this site is a little confusing! I hope I am replying to you!!!! Sheila, thanks so much for your insight. We really need to hear from women (and men!) who are actually living with lupus so that we can make our decisions accurately and compassionately!!! I love the email idea, and once things have calmed down a bit, I think that may be a good next step. Perhaps she will be able to see that I am not trying to attack her!!!! I have no doubt that she needs medication for her pain, but suspect that she is either not using it properly, or is having some massive side effects.

My fear is that the side effects are clouding her mind so much that she is actually unable to process what we are telling her. I feel better that you are open to the idea of contacting her doctor, and this is definitely an option that will consider. We most definitely do NOT have the expertise to sort this out on our own! We just know that someone we love is in a downward spiral, and we want to be sure we are doing our part to help her - even if that help comes at a cost to our friendship. (although I certainly hope it won't be forever!)

Thank you again so much for your thoughts. Please feel free to add ideas as you think of them - I don't live with lupus, and it's really difficult to sort this out. Your advice is really helpful.

- Sue

Sheila W. said:

I think you're right about the meds. Cortisone can cause huge anger issues, paranoia, etc. by itself. When you spoke of meds, she probably thought she was being attacked for taking pain meds. That's what hit the nerve. WE get that all the time, condemnation about taking strong pain meds. When athletes take steroids, their personality changes and some have even been on the news for domestic violence while on them. I know the anti- depressants are notorious for causing suicidal feelings in younger people and in some people who are sensitive to those meds. It's scary to approach a raging person like that. Maybe you could email her the information just about cortisone, and say "It's possible that too high of doses of cortisone are causing the problem. Your doctor could slowly taper you down to a smaller dose." Then cut and paste the info from this link into the letter. http://www.drugs.com/sfx/cortisone-side-effects.html because I'm sure she's so angry she would not even click on a link. Part of it says:

Call your doctor at once if you have any of these serious side effects:

  • problems with your vision;

  • swelling, rapid weight gain, feeling short of breath;

  • severe depression, unusual thoughts or behavior, seizure (convulsions)

    Maybe copy and paste the side effects of her anti-depressant, because it WILL say to watch out for suicidal thoughts and paranoia etc.

    Also, lupus can attack the CNS (central nervous system) and cause all of her issues. So it's hard to know the exact cause. I wish you could talk to her Dr. She should be in the hospital to sort all this out and find the cause. I wouldn't like her to go to the mental ward though, because they take away all your meds there and fast withdrawal from all these meds can be fatal. They have to be tapered off.

    Tell her that even though our husbands vow "for better and for worse", the reality is that 80% of us end up alone because a spouse can only take so much, and that she needs to see her Dr. and hopefully get admitted, to save her marriage.

    You have your hands full. God bless you to be inspired to know what to say and do.

9

Dear Kristin,

Bless you and your hubby for caring enough to get involved. Often it come with a price of being misunderstood, and being intrusive. However, my first recommendation would be to PRAY! This problem is bigger than life itself. My husband is a pastor and has been for 50 years so we've had to be in the middle of this type of thing often. I would begin with the husband to offer him help and support...the children. It is so painful for them to see the transformation before their very eyes. No doubt they are experiencing some grief of losing wife/mom. He needs some relief.

It seems she is in a scary place right now and he needs to talk to her doctor SOON! She may need some readjusment to her meds. Yes, she may be angry but when she gets help she will not be thinking the same way....definitely not a quick fix with this kind of issue. There are some issues that no amount of couseling will help until the meds get adjusted...then the help begins.

No doubt she has isolated herself from her friends...and some new bridge building may be necessary on their part. 1st....just listen to her (no anaylizing, no judment) and let her feel the compassion they have for her. Use all of her senses - let her "hear" your concern...let her "feel" the hugs. Bring something that has a nice aroma she can smell....a thing of beauty...she can see. You get the idea. Sit with her in the fresh air and get her out of her 4 walls.

These two things could go on simultaniously.

Now that I am on this side of helping others, I understand more clearly what the suffering one is going through. And it is a family issue. My husband recently retired to care for me. I know at time he feels confined, concerned, and confused as to what to do. But he is a man who meant his vows 50 years ago and stands by me with love. Our children though they live hundreds of miles away, share in my care by providing a "med alert" when he has to go to town or work in the corrals with the horses.

I feel for her because she didn't want life to be this way...but she needs coping skills and those who understand and hear her heart. Her doctor truly needs to know this, so if she needs intervention, it can take place soon. Truly I am so thankful for our group here for those who may just send a short message wondering how I'm doing....and I love to check on others. We all need that and I feel no pressure...just love and understanding.

If you could go over and help us set up her page and show her some of the stories. Sometimes, we need to get our minds off of ourselves. A few minutes of caring for others give some relief to our pain. I am sorry to be so long. I will be praying for her today. That is something I can do.

And my hubby and I will pray for wisdom for you two as you reach out to help this precious family. Just know we care.

Lovingly,

Faye

10


I know just what this person is going through. When I'm very sick and in pain I want/don't want help and feel frustrated that I can't do what I what I used to--a very active, fulfilling, productive life. I can't even walk with out a cane or a walker--I hate it. I ache all over and my chest is always congested and wheezy. I miss going places and doing things, especially with my friends.

When I'm feeling better and capable of getting through the day, people seem too helpful or not helpful enough. I mean it. At times a can deal with it and at other times not.

It's not easy knowing how to react to how I feel and to the very positive responses from other humans. I just really want to have someone get rid of this stupid disease and all the suffering. Why me?!

I have given up a lot to make my life easier on myself and am coming around. But, I had to get there myself, not with all the suggestions and the shoulds and shouldn'ts. I am also in a live support group which is amazing.

I think people should lay off this woman and play it by ear. Look for a different approach. Work with the small positives. Go out and join a lupus support group without her. Friends and family need support too.

Bless you all,

Berta

11

Kristin, can you suggest to her husband to call her Dr. and explain this behavior and that she acts normal in public and that she probably needs in-treatment?

12

Faye, Thanks so much. I agree that without prayer (lots of it), our efforts will be useless. We recognize clearly that this is huge, and that we need wisdom beyond ourselves as we go forward. No matter how difficult the journey ahead may be, we need to make sure we don't take one step that isn't saturated in our love and compassion for this family.

The family is committed to each other completely, and there is no thought of walking away. The husband didn't take his wedding vows lightly when he made them, and he is 100% committed to them now. However, lupus has brought with it much anger and frustration on all sides. While they are all in the same house, and everyone pitches in to accomplish what needs to get done, there has been a shredding of relationships all around.

This is indeed a scary place, and it is not fun. However, there is at least some hope that has popped up. If indeed there are some meds that have gone bad (some even have the side effect of causing MORE pain!), then perhaps some of what we are seeing can be solved. We completely accept that personalities will change and that chronic pain is going to bring with it the need for extra love, work, and compassion by other family members. But we recognize that if the meds are indeed causing some of this problem, then no amount of love and care will make a difference, as they are literally messing up her thought process. And this is a very smart, successful and savvy lady we are talking about. What we are seeing now is disturbing beyond belief.

Sheila suggested perhaps having her husband call her doctor to explain this, and I think we are getting to that point, only because we are afraid of what will happen if we don't. Hopefully he can manage to get this done in a way that is respectful and loving, and that we can manage to figure out which of her many doctors he should approach. Sigh.

I am so glad that despite your pain and despite your limitations, I can "hear" the deep love that you have for your family. I can't express to you enough how encouraging this is. This gives me hope that this couple can, with God's help, have their marriage and family restored to a place of health, even in the midst of the pain and heartbreak and the stress that lupus brings.

Your practical ideas were wonderful. We are a bit limited since I work full-time and we are an hour apart, but I will work to accomplish the "feelings" you have suggested. I may need more time before I can introduce her to this group, but that is the plan :)

I may not be able to reply more until tomorrow, but am deeply grateful to you and everyone else who have responded so far. We love this family so much, and do not want to cause any more hurt than they are already experiencing. To have your input and advice is invaluable.

I will be eagerly looking forward to hearing any other thoughts you might have. And knowing we are in your prayers means more than you know. :) Thanks for taking the time to help.

- Kristin

Faye said:

Dear Kristin,

Bless you and your hubby for caring enough to get involved. Often it come with a price of being misunderstood, and being intrusive. However, my first recommendation would be to PRAY! This problem is bigger than life itself. My husband is a pastor and has been for 50 years so we've had to be in the middle of this type of thing often. I would begin with the husband to offer him help and support...the children. It is so painful for them to see the transformation before their very eyes. No doubt they are experiencing some grief of losing wife/mom. He needs some relief.

It seems she is in a scary place right now and he needs to talk to her doctor SOON! She may need some readjusment to her meds. Yes, she may be angry but when she gets help she will not be thinking the same way....definitely not a quick fix with this kind of issue. There are some issues that no amount of couseling will help until the meds get adjusted...then the help begins.

No doubt she has isolated herself from her friends...and some new bridge building may be necessary on their part. 1st....just listen to her (no anaylizing, no judment) and let her feel the compassion they have for her. Use all of her senses - let her "hear" your concern...let her "feel" the hugs. Bring something that has a nice aroma she can smell....a thing of beauty...she can see. You get the idea. Sit with her in the fresh air and get her out of her 4 walls.

These two things could go on simultaniously.

Now that I am on this side of helping others, I understand more clearly what the suffering one is going through. And it is a family issue. My husband recently retired to care for me. I know at time he feels confined, concerned, and confused as to what to do. But he is a man who meant his vows 50 years ago and stands by me with love. Our children though they live hundreds of miles away, share in my care by providing a "med alert" when he has to go to town or work in the corrals with the horses.

I feel for her because she didn't want life to be this way...but she needs coping skills and those who understand and hear her heart. Her doctor truly needs to know this, so if she needs intervention, it can take place soon. Truly I am so thankful for our group here for those who may just send a short message wondering how I'm doing....and I love to check on others. We all need that and I feel no pressure...just love and understanding.

If you could go over and help us set up her page and show her some of the stories. Sometimes, we need to get our minds off of ourselves. A few minutes of caring for others give some relief to our pain. I am sorry to be so long. I will be praying for her today. That is something I can do.

And my hubby and I will pray for wisdom for you two as you reach out to help this precious family. Just know we care.

Lovingly,

Faye

13

Hi Kristen,
I obviously am not a doctor nor do I know your friend but that sounds like a pretty nasty cocktail of drugs. I assume she is also taking something for the lupus i.e. plaquenil etc?? I would maybe get the husband and have him write down everything she is taking including the amount and times she is taking them. Take the list explain the situation and ask a doctor even yours if necessary. I would also take list and get an opinion from a pharmacist. There are many people here suffering with some or all of the same pains as your friend but I have never had the impression that anyone reacts in such a belligerent manner. We all vent in pain and out of frustration but as previously stated by someone else it is usually the opposite…we can’t get enough help. I would also get the name of her doc and google them just to see what pops up because it sounds to me like rather than truly treating her illness he is just writing scrip after script just to shut her up!!! I wish I could help. Good luck!!!

14

Hello Kristin,

You have repeatedly said you fear for where this is going. I don't know where you live, but in Canada if you believe that a person is a danger to themselves or others, especially if you are in a profession such as ministry, you have a duty of care to inform the appropriate authorities. Since you are in the situation, only you can make that call; however, it sounds from your various posts that you are very close.

If I have overstepped please forgive me.

15

It sounds like the medications could be causing the change in moods and behaviour. I hope the following helps:

Serious Vicodin Side Effects

Some side effects with Vicodin, while occurring infrequently, are potentially serious and should be reported immediately to your healthcare provider. These include but are not limited to:
  • The urge to take more Vicodin than prescribed or for a non-medical purpose (see Vicodin Abuse)
  • Confusion
  • Anxiety or fear
  • Severe constipation
  • Slow or irregular breathing
  • A slow heart rate (bradycardia)
  • Difficulty passing urine
  • Low blood pressure (hypotension)
  • Severe drowsiness
  • Signs of liver damage

(note severe drowsiness and anxiety or fear)

Possible Side Effects of Oxycodone

  • The urge to take more oxycodone than prescribed or for a non-medical purpose
  • Falling or unsteadiness
  • Unusual changes in mood or behavior
  • Severe constipation
  • Drowsiness -- up to 24 percent (drowsiness again!)

As for antidepressents, just click on the following as there was too much to paste here.

Side Effects of Antidepressants Home > Clinical Depression Learning Path > Treating Depression

I have found the following to be very helpful:

cutting out saturated fats (except for odd treat)

a good diet including: lots of vegetables, salads, brown rice, wholemeal pasta, fish, eggs, organic natural yogurt, fruit, unsalted nuts, prunes, dates, figs, some wholemeal bread, legumes, olives, a little red wine ( though not with some meds!) I also see a good chiropractor, though not all chiropractors are equal! I recommend finding one with an holistic approach.

Hope this helps.xx


16

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17

The narcotics that she is on are quite strong. Medications need tribe reassessed. She may be onto much.
Her husband needs to be proactive in her health as the narcotics are very much the culprit.

18

The is a dynamic here. All of you are right. The woman has a lot going on and needs help along with her family. The question is where to start. She might know. Ask her.

Bless you all for being so concerned.

19

I hear a lot of compassion for the husband and children but very little for the woman herself. I keep hearing how her illness is effecting her husband and family but I dont hear any real understanding of how it has effected the woman herself. depending on the type of lupus and weather or not she is in flare I imagine it is effecting her greatly. Her life has been altered and she is trying to cope. And yes she wants help to cope with the changes in her life. Maybe helpful suggestions like using a crock pot so she can still make dinner without a lot of physical effort., and if she is in flare the lupus may be effecting her central nervous system causing personality changes. In your research did you read anything about dealing with chronic pain and illness? Your friends wife is probably confused and angry and trying to figure it all out. Try to help her family come up with ways to help her learn new ways to do things for herself. And if they can a therapist to deal with the anger issue, just like the stages of grief she has to move through anger onto acceptance. It isnt easy as we all know but judging her is not what she needs. just love her and pray she finds a way to cope.

20

This is not caused by lupus or she has very abnormal kind of lupus which is possible but i yet to see anyone ever act this way due to just lupus. But my own experience might be helpful...and i can hear your sincere concern she might harm herself.

First, most people or patients know...as you know, that if they mention they feel suicidal that as her counselor you must address it. Most likely admit her, so people never actually will say they have suicidal thoughts. To be there is one of the worst feelings. Unimaginable to most unless you been there. So if you believe she is there than you must do something now as you know as a counselor.

I ended up acting almost identical to her for various reasons. Emotional trauma had recently happen to me and i had not gone to a counselor i trusted so no 'real' work got done. I was over drugged and that created out burst just like you say anytime my family would express worry about that. I discovered a very useful tool that if you get very angry if a friend or family etc suggest you are over drugged than odds are you are. If you are upset emotionally to be zombie is much better than to feel the horrible pain of the trauma. I also than had severe reaction to a antidepressant my doctor had me switch since other did nothing. Problem was even ER Doctors did not have clue what was going on with me. I am sure they saw this zombie woman on way too many drugs and kept saying that my brain felt extremely not right...like was closing down or i get tunnel vision which over doing pain killers and other drugs like also cause. Plus, we did not have Psychiatrist Dr here in this county. So next day I called my old counselor who i seen off and on for 20 years most of it over 15 yrs ago. I trusted this woman with my life...i saw at least 5-7 other counselor before i found her and she saw right through my mask .

I tried to drive down to see her but tunnel vision come and go so she drove up to me. One look and she realized I was over drugged or some kind of drug problem with my medication because if it had been emotional i tell her. She talked me into admitting myself into mental dept of hospital in her area...that she knew was somewhat decent. As you might know but in case others see this in themselves or others...county mental wards are scary and if you have had somewhat 'normal' life ...no extreme violence or abuse in your family they will be upsetting. Violent mental people are in with rest, men and women are combined but all do this ...sure some really nice private ones do not but most do. But try to do some homework before you either admit yourself or have loved one admitted to fine nicest one your insurance will take.

They figured out in less day that it was reaction to the antidepressant since they seen it before. So i was only there few days. Than i went to pain specialist on my counselor recommendation and he was the life saver really. First visit was over 2 hours. He said that only way he will work with me was that he need to work with all my doctors....he said letter /email about my treatments and what was new or different and he expected them to do same plus i got a copy as well so i was included and treated with respect as part of my treatment plan. I was use to this since my Kaiser doctors had always done this. It took me over a year to get off all the drugs and back on only ones i really needed. I went from over 10 down to 4. He also made you take class about pain and how it works plus how pain drugs work. It was really informative.

I really recommend that you try and get her doctors to work as team asap! She will accept this more likely because she is being treated as real partner in her treatment and it shows her respect since she will get a copy of their letters as well.

Also...this is part, that i do not mean to offend you. I know you wrote because you sincerely are concerned about this friend. If i read a post that sounded very much or exactly like my counselor discussing things about my life well it would be huge violation of trust. It appears that you have not made any headway with her as client. The best thing for her might be to help her find some one that she can speak with and motivates her to do the real work. It be nice to have type of therapist that knows about drugs and how they can affect us emotionally plus what are good combinations and which are not. Or even what is too many. I hope you do not take this as being criticism it is meant not to be. I too, would like this woman to get help she needs. It would be grand if in a year or less she enjoys life again and i am positive that is what you want for her as well and why your wrote. I hope my life's experience in being very much as you describe can help you to help her with all my heart.